Talk:Dragon Slayer Ornstein/@comment-24411414-20180711051826
I see many people debating over whether Ornstein in DS1 is an illusion or not, many use the argument that it was a retcon, or that he somehow survived the battle, but.... Let's go by parts: 1. During O&S's battle one of them is scripted to die before the other. That can only be done once per playthrough very much like the endings of the game, which means, only one of the cinematics may be the actual canon outcome. Now, hold that thought, cuz I'll come back to it later; 2. In Dark Souls 3, both Smough's Hammer and Armor exposes that he was the'' last'' knight standing at the ruined cathedral. Now, I've seen people argue that because the descriptions don't spell it out that said place is Anor Londo, somehow the game could be referring to some other cathedral somewhere. To be honest, I feel like this is a bit of a leg-pulling. Both items point in a direction that's familiar to us, which is more valid as evidence than having no in-game suggestions that refutes it, so it's safer to assume the obvious choice in one such case. Remember when I said that only one of the outcomes in the O&S fight may be the canon one? If you sum number 1 and 2, the evidences imply Smough dies second. That could easily tie up with the whole idea that the Ornstein at the cathedral could be an illusion, while the real one set off to find The Nameless King. "Wait, but how Ornstein's illusion is capable of hurting us and receive so many blows to begin with when all other illusions presented in the game, including Gwynevere's, can be dispelled with a simple hit??? How would Smough get stronger by absorbing an illusion, even?!" I have discussed this part with another friend and, the deduction I got by dabbing at other scattered lore info. is that the Ornstein in the cathedral may be an illusion enhanced by a soul fragment of the original Ornstein. Stay with me and I'll explain. There are four pieces of lore that have given me evidence to get to this possibility: 1. Soul sharing; ( Souls of Lords ) 2. Seath's experiments; ( Moonlight Butterfly ) 3. The concept that a soul's power enhances its bearer; ( levelling system, O&S fight, TNK fight, Slave Knight Gael's fight) 4. Memories ingrained in souls; ( Old Moonlight ) What I've reasoned from all of these was: Sharing the Dark Soul created the human race, whereas Gwyn sharing fragments of his own Lord Soul originated what would be known as the divine race who dwells in Anor Londo, with him, his children, and a few select others standing on top of their hierarchy, as Gods. Later on, he'd also give shards to other beings as a reward for their deeds (namely Seath and the Four Kings). That said, I need to bring the albino dragon into this because his lore may imply that even a soul that's already fragmented can keep on being shared multiple times as long as the division doesn't compromise its strength; the Moonlight Butterfly's soul was a creation of Seath, suggesting that he may have used pieces of his own fragment to use as "ingredient" to enhance and/or stabilize his creations. This train of thought led me to believe that perhaps Ornstein bequeathed a piece of his own soul out for Gwyndolin to create a stable illusion of solid strength to effectively substitute him while he was away. That not only would explain why Smough can absorb his power, but also justifies why you can make Ornstein's weapon with it; because the illusion is not an actual living being, the memories imprinted into it never got "overwritten". Phew! After practically writing an essay on it, I hope this has sounded plausible enough.